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Re: Feature request: Vizualization of 'fsvs' properties.

From: Stefan Küng <tortoisesvn_at_gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 21:02:08 +0200

Ph. Marek wrote:
>> OSS never avoids discussions - you just failed to discuss this with the
>> Subversion devs before starting fsvs...
> Sorry, Stefan. That's where I accuse you of not reading the pointers I sent
> you.
> On 2003-05-16 (http://svn.haxx.se/dev/archive-2003-05/1360.shtml) I sent a
> first patch using svn:text-time (using that on commit only) - and when starting
> FSVS some years later (May 2005, to be exact) I haven't heard any specific
> feedback regarding the names or formats I used.

I've read that. But you just don't get it (sorry, but it's true):
* you never asked whether those properties are final or open for use
* after you created the branch and your initial work, you didn't follow
through with trying to backport your branch to trunk
* you started your own project, using those properties without asking.
Even though you introduced them, you can't use them for your projects:
those properties belong to Subversion.

I mentinoned this before: what if Subversion wants to use the very same
properties in the future? From their point of view, they can use those
properties for whatever they see fit. You can't expect them to search
the whole internet for projects which might already use those properties
differently and then either use different ones (which then had to be
some awkward names because you already used the correct ones for that
feature) or ignore you and break your tool.

An existing branch in the Subversion repository does not mean that what
is in that branch is free to use - it happens a *lot* that a branch is
removed, and later the feature for which the branch was created in the
first place is then implemented a different way. And since the svn:
properties are for Subversion, they can use those if they want.

> And now the situation is that there are patches and branches for subversion
> using that for more than 5 years - and I have heard *no single* problem with
> the properties.

Just because you didn't have problems until now, doesn't mean you won't
get into troubles in the future. The development is in progress.

> As the subversion project didn't give any feedback (about these properties),
> it's too late now - they're in use.

That's exactly the problem. You used those without asking - no feedback
does not mean you got the permission to use them.

>> That
>> means I would bet good money on it that your format can't handle e.g.
>> Windows at all. If Subversion would try to do it right, supporting
>> different platforms, it now can't use their own properties anymore
>> because you are using them.
> There's *no* easy way that Windows' ACLs and Unix permissions can be matched.
> Look at the mess the cygwin project has.

cygwin itself is a mess (my opinion).
And just because there is no easy way doesn't mean the Subversion devs
won't ever try.

> I cannot make myself clear, I think.
>
> For *five* full years I've heard *no* comment about the properties.
> If the subversion project should choose to define new properties, I sure hope
> that they don't just take these.

You own a piece of land, somewhere in the country. But you live in a
city and don't use your land right now. Someone else is using it without
you knowing for five years. You never hear anything about that.
Then one day you decide to build a house on your land - sorry, someone
else is using it and you haven't objected for five years - go back to
your apartment in the city.

Can you see how flawed your argument is?

> Why does svn:log use UTF-8 and not some "internal" encoding? Because it's
> already here, and works! Same for these properties: *now* they're matter of
> fact.

Read the docs: the svn:log property is documented and the docs clearly
state that the encoding must be utf-8.

> Stefan, thank you for your answers.
> But IMHO your points are on lost ground; I'll stop discussing here.
> Maybe I'll try to get the properties "official".
> Maybe your users can get some vote that they'd like visualization of these
> properties in the repository browser.
>
> I don't use Windows; I don't really mind.

That's a relief. If you would use Windows and write apps for it, I'm
sure your apps would break a lot of other apps - you don't care whether
you're using undocumented functions of any other apps.

Stefan

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Received on 2008-09-04 21:02:31 CEST

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