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Re: Feature request: Vizualization of 'fsvs' properties.

From: Ph. Marek <philipp_at_marek.priv.at>
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 16:57:22 +0000 (UTC)

Stefan Küng <tortoisesvn <at> gmail.com> writes:
> So there are more than just one project using those properties. Great.
> Just think about it: if Subversion wants to implement some ACL handling
> and wants to use e.g. svn:group for it it's just bad luck: they can't
> use their very own property namespace anymore because other apps are
> already using those properties without asking.
...
> Sure, that kind of namespace (actually, it's not a real namespace asvn
> uses here) is even worse. But at least it doesn't interfere with
> Subversion development.
...
> But not from an official release. That means those properties are still
> 'internal' to svn and must not be used.
> If you start using any new property that gets introduced on an
> experimental branch, you prevent Subversion from ever finishing (or
> rewriting) that branch without breaking your app.
...
> OSS never avoids discussions - you just failed to discuss this with the
> Subversion devs before starting fsvs...
Sorry, Stefan. That's where I accuse you of not reading the pointers I sent
you.
On 2003-05-16 (http://svn.haxx.se/dev/archive-2003-05/1360.shtml) I sent a
first patch using svn:text-time (using that on commit only) - and when starting
FSVS some years later (May 2005, to be exact) I haven't heard any specific
feedback regarding the names or formats I used.

And now the situation is that there are patches and branches for subversion
using that for more than 5 years - and I have heard *no single* problem with
the properties.

As the subversion project didn't give any feedback (about these properties),
it's too late now - they're in use.

> I haven't checked your format. But fsvs is Linux only. Subversion
> however works on many platforms with different ACL mechanisms.
Yes, by ignoring them.

> That
> means I would bet good money on it that your format can't handle e.g.
> Windows at all. If Subversion would try to do it right, supporting
> different platforms, it now can't use their own properties anymore
> because you are using them.
There's *no* easy way that Windows' ACLs and Unix permissions can be matched.
Look at the mess the cygwin project has.

> Or: they could simply ignore your project and let you deal with your
> angry users once your app breaks as soon as they update Subversion.
>
> > If I understand you correctly, if I send a patch to subversion-dev which
> > clearly documents the names and formats, and this gets accepted, it
> > would be ok for you?
>
> Then those would be officially documented, yes.
Ok, so at least that's common ground.

> For svn the prefix was ok because it is the internal svn prefix.
> For FSVS to use the svn prefix is *not* ok if Subversion has not
> officially documented them or provides an API for it.
> Just because those properties are used on a branch (an experimental one
> at that) doesn't mean you're allowed to use them! Because as long as the
> branch exists, it can still change completely or even get rewritten,
> which means the meaning and definition of those properties could change.
> With you using those properties, that's not possible without breaking
> either Subversion or your app.
I cannot make myself clear, I think.

For *five* full years I've heard *no* comment about the properties.
If the subversion project should choose to define new properties, I sure hope
that they don't just take these.

> which means the meaning and definition of those properties could change.
So the used names have to keep that meaning. No problem, there's a lot of space
for other names.
And the definition doesn't seem to be a problem. It's just *a* definition, and
that should be sufficient - until someone proves otherwise.

Why does svn:log use UTF-8 and not some "internal" encoding? Because it's
already here, and works! Same for these properties: *now* they're matter of
fact.

So the best way is to get them officially documented, and there'll never be a
problem.

Stefan, thank you for your answers.
But IMHO your points are on lost ground; I'll stop discussing here.
Maybe I'll try to get the properties "official".
Maybe your users can get some vote that they'd like visualization of these
properties in the repository browser.

I don't use Windows; I don't really mind.

Thank you again, and good luck with TortoiseSVN (honestly! Not meant sarcastic,
or something like that).

Regards,

Phil

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Received on 2008-09-04 19:00:25 CEST

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