Re: "witty subject line about logging feature"

On 7/21/05, Ben Collins-Sussman <sussman@collab.net> wrote:
>
> Several of us had some more real-time discussion in IRC today about
> logging design. It was a bit confusing, though, because it seems that
> we still haven't agreed on general goals.

[...]

> So let's try this from the top-down. What problem(s) are we trying to
> solve?
>
> Here's what the Chicago office thinks the main problem is:
>
> * svnserve currently has no logging at all, and apache's logging is
> far too low-level to be comprehensible.

Actually, the apache log does not give enough visibility as to what
happened while giving too much detail into the mechanics...

> * both svn server processes need a way to log "high-level" actions:
>
> - what conceptual requests were made (i.e. update, commit, etc.)
> - what URLs were accessed, by whom, from what IP
> - what errors or warnings might have happened

All of which should be known by the server without changes to the client.

> And here's the Chicago office's design goals:
>
> A. Make it easy for any svn-related program to log messages to a
> common place -- not just server implementations, but *any*
> svn-related program. This makes it easier to find/manage logs,
> and rotate them.

Well, this gets interesting in the question of "any svn-related" program.
How does one look at actions from TSVN? Or some other client (the
pure-Java client, for example)?

I guess this all gets back to the feature/ability to use file:// access,
which means each client directly manipulates the repository. Getting
logging from those cases is, IMHO, already a broken concept since
there is nothing to ensure that the logs are in any way correct.

> B. Make it possible for svn-related programs to log messages to
> private places too, should they wish.

Well, the client programs should have a way to log information, either
to STDERR or a file or even the system logging tools (syslog/winlog)
but I don't see the client programs as being server logging due to
those same security issues.

> C. Make it possible to integrate with OS-level logging facilities
> (e.g. syslogd and win32 logging subsystem)

Absolutely needed for any high end system - for management and
security reason...

-- 
Michael Sinz               Technology and Engineering Director/Consultant
"Starting Startups"                          mailto:Michael.Sinz@sinz.org
My place on the web                      http://www.sinz.org/Michael.Sinz
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