Re: beta@ feedback mailing list?

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 4:03 PM, Jacek Materna <jacek_at_assembla.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 10:14 AM, Stefan Sperling <stsp_at_elego.de> wrote:
>> On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 01:04:01AM +0200, Johan Corveleyn wrote:
>>> How do other ASF projects do this actually? Forums, presence in other
>>> online places, more modern website look and feel, ...?
>>
>> They use github :)
>
>
> On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 1:04 AM, Johan Corveleyn <jcorvel_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 3:32 PM, Jacek Materna <jacek_at_assembla.com> wrote:
>>> Just observing from afar, in my opinion the root of what you are
>>> trying to achieve here ties more to a lack of 'modern' collaboration.
>>> If we want to engage the community/users more (expand the
>>> IB/participation sphere - new - users) I would also explore
>>> alternative mediums (versus email). One of the reasons Github has been
>>> so successful in making git an overwhelming force has little to do
>>> with git itself. They made the process easy, rewarding and exciting to
>>> contribute as a user.
>>>
>>> An approachable UX leads to more engagement - every time. I think it
>>> would be great if we had an army of excited users wanting to test new
>>> features. The product would benefit. Users in SaaS for example always
>>> enjoy being [volunteering] part of a "beta" program - there is
>>> something satisfying for users in it. On the flip-side "beta" program
>>> for on-premise "enterprise" products are rarely so.
>>>
>>> Adding ontop the beta@ ... If we can make the "beta" collaborative,
>>> more engaging for users I think its a real step forward towards an
>>> army.
>>
>> I think you've got a point here, Jacek. I can see that our general
>> UX-impression as a project / community comes across as dated. It would
>> be great if we could improve that UX, and make it more modern, if that
>> helps reaching a broader group of users to help us beta-testing etc
>> ... and increase enthousiasm for our upcoming release.
>>
>> Do you (or anyone) have any concrete suggestions (within reach of our
>> very limited resources, especially regarding volunteer time to spend
>> on it)? People that want to help with this?
>>
>> How do other ASF projects do this actually? Forums, presence in other
>> online places, more modern website look and feel, ...?
>>
>> --
>> Johan
>
> Thinking out loud here ...
>
> Idea here is to change incrementally, so we can: change tools, cannot
> impact work flow, limit effort and amplify our capabilities as a team.
>
> Lets consider the five main work flows:
> - reviewing a patch submission;
> - reviewing a (typically recent) commit;
> - reviewing a back-port nomination (from trunk to branches/1.9.x);
> - reviewing a patch to a vulnerability (this is done on private@).
> - beta/feedback release
>
> Focusing on #5 for this thread and knowing that apache projects cannot
> have mandatory infrastructure dependencies on third parties, in order
> to ensure the projects' long-term independence; projects may use
> third-party-hosted tools, but they may not rely on such tools - the
> projects always have to have a Plan B for in case the third party
> service goes down.
>
> If we wanted to try the "github" model - Assembla is more than happy
> to support the community with native SVN support for "collab".
>
> For the case of beta@ we've done this successfully before where we
> create a public area for users to discuss, comment on features, code,
> ideas for an upcoming release. It would be extremely simple to put
> 1.10 into a repo with blame/compare/pull request/protected directories
> capabilities along side ticket tracking for feedback.
>
> If the test is successful and we improve quality/feedback, it's a great win.
>
> I can also help get resources to move other channels such as the
> forums, public discussion around 1.10 - once we close on a date.
> Getting good engagement is not as easy as a forum - marketing is a
> very important axis to get results, especially if we want to reach
> audiences typically not involved, such as for example game artists who
> use SVN every day - plenty of persona's out there that are using SVN
> for its power, are non-technical but would love the opportunity to
> help shape the "latest" SVN release with feedback.
>
> I think a modern subversion website is a great idea. I could look at
> getting resources to help with that as well. Even a simple
> re-surfacing may be a great step.
>
> If nobody is allergic to it I could setup a hosted 1.10-beta and see
> what everyone has to say with a concrete dartboard to throw darts at -
> worst case we burn it down and/or get the idea train going.

Hi Jacek,

Thanks a lot for these suggestions. They are all constructive ideas,
but I think we'll have to chew a bit on them.

I certainly want us to make progress in these areas, but it might take
a while to discuss these things.
Just wanted to drop a quick note that this hasn't fallen on deaf ears ...

-- 
Johan