Re: A wiki for this group

What it is that makes this like a wiki to you?
I'm supposing you have seen contributions emailed into the authors being
incorporated?

Until one puts the edit controls and the editorial process into an open
collaborative process, I'd position that its not sufficiently wiki-like.
It's a one-webmaster scenario. That the book authors are so good at
incorporating public contributions doesn't make the same wiki like promises
to would be contributors. In particular it doesn't promise inclusion and
doesn't help people collectively figure out what is relevant.

Sure the process may work (I assume it does), but I imagine that newcomers
can't see the effectiveness of the process you have. The public are
understanding the promise of a well-maintained wiki. Seeing that promise in
itself is more likely to get contributions.

It would be an interesting experiment to front your existing process with a
wiki. Instead of taking contributions by email take them through the wiki.

Regards,
   Martin.

--
Martin_at_Cleaver.org
+1 416-786-6752 (GMT-5)
On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 4:24 PM, Johnathan Gifford <jgifford_at_wernervas.com>wrote:
> We have a wiki!  You can find it at:
>
> http://svnbook.red-bean.com/
>
> If you don't like something in the book, then contribute to the book.
>
> Johnathan
>
> >>> On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at  2:43 PM, in message
> <fe8dba6a0808061243wcd139a7yd3beb6b7d7914502_at_mail.gmail.com>,
> "Martin_at_Cleaver.org" <Martin_at_Cleaver.org> wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Ryan Schmidt <
> > subversion-2008c_at_ryandesign.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Aug 5, 2008, at 22:03, Martin_at_Cleaver.org wrote:
> >>
> >>> (How about using a wiki instead of the mailing list? I found the svn
> >>> vendor branch documentation just terrible for a newbie)
> >>>
> >> A wiki is not a substitute for a mailing list. A mailing list is for
> >> questions and answers, and for troubleshooting. A wiki is for
> documentation.
> >>
> >
> > Ok. So keep the mailing list. Would the community benefit from a wiki for
> > documentation as well?
> >
> > For those people not on the mailing list, who aren't in the conversation
> day
> > in day out, and who want a reference source a wiki could be really
> useful...
> > (and a wiki set up to file all email can be even more useful).
> >
> > From http://subversion.tigris.org/tools_contrib.html search for the word
> > "vendor" - nothing. You'd need to look for svn_load_dirs.pl (which is an
> > obscure name, relative to "vendor branch"); From Blair's email I now know
> > that there is a tool "piston" that manages Subversion Vendor Branches,
> but
> > there's no "vendor branch" category and no other tools category "import",
> > and indeed, "piston" doesn't exist anywhere on this page. Even searching
> for
> > "rename" on this page yields no hits. Sure I could have sent an email,
> and
> > waited 24 hours. But I did ask on #svn and they pointed me back at
> > svn_load_dirs.pl, which after a lot of head scratching I worked out how
> to
> > use and build a tool to harness, only to find that it's impractical
> because
> > of the renaming issues.
> >
> > The existing site is somewhat broken. For instance from
> > http://subversion.tigris.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=dev&msgNo=121964I
> > click "Contributed tools" and get taken to the 404 at
> > http://subversion.tigris.org/servlets/tools_contrib.html ; if the site
> was a
> > wiki more people could help to maintain the site structure.
> >
> > For instance, a wiki would have a page called SVN Vendor Branches that
> > collected the best ways of describing what one is and which tools can
> manage
> > them.
> >
> > A wiki is not a substitute for a book either. A book is written and
> reviewed
> > by editors and formatted carefully and organized and changes are
> considered
> > before being accepted. Wikis accept all changes, some of which should
> never
> > have been accepted, or should have been in different places, or do not
> match
> > the style of the rest of the document. Especially in the case of the
> > Subversion book, I wouldn't change its process. I find it excellent.
> >
> >
> > Yup, the book like the old timers on the mailing list is written by
> people
> > who understand the concept. Wikis are open to newcomers who will inform
> you
> > of what they didn't understand and help experts frame complex ideas in
> > simple langauage.
> >
> > I simply didn't understand the chapter on vendor branches, and neither
> did
> > these people:
> >
> > "I use Subversion and a concept called 'vendor branches.' Sadly, their
> > documentation is confusing " -
> > http://lookfirst.com/2007/11/subversion-vendor-branches-howto.html
> >
> > "I read the Subversion book, which confused me a bit and pointed me
> towards
> > svn_load_dirs, which has both a man page and a README, neither of which
> make
> > a great deal of sense. " -
> > http://burtonini.com/blog/computers/svn-vendor-2005-05-04-13-55
> >
> > "I found the vendor branch concept a bit confusing;" -
> >
> http://techlog.p2061.org/2008/05/21/using-svn-for-application-deployment/
> >
> >
> >
> > That's not to say it can't be improved in places. The writers welcome
> > feedback. You should send it to the book mailing list. Info about how to
> do
> > that is near the bottom of http://svnbook.org/ .
> >
> >
> > If it was a wiki I'd contribute. Indeed, probably the people who wrote
> those
> > blog posts would contribute.
> >
> > A wiki is not a substitute for a book either. A book is written and
> reviewed
> >> by editors and formatted carefully and organized and changes are
> considered
> >> before being accepted. Wikis accept all changes, some of which should
> never
> >> have been accepted, or should have been in different places, or do not
> match
> >> the style of the rest of the document. Especially in the case of the
> >> Subversion book, I wouldn't change its process. I find it excellent.
> >>
> >
> > The three bloggers plus myself would likely have contribute to the wiki
> page
> > on Subversion Branches. How many people write the Subversion Book? A wiki
> > would not substitute the book, it would complement it, by providing raw
> > material, tools and useful distinctions.
> >
> > Just wanted to share my thoughts. I'm off to use Piston now. (Thanks
> Blair)
> >
> > Martin
> > --
> > Martin Cleaver M.Sc. MBA
> >
> > PS. Here's the script I wrote.
> >
> > cat svn_create_vendor_branch.pl
> > #! /bin/perl -w
> > use strict; # don't use this, use Piston http://piston.rubyforge.org/
> >
> > my $vendorurl="http://svn.automattic.com/wordpress-mu";
> > my $vendordroptag="1.2.3";
> >
> > my $workingarea="/tmp/build-$$";
> > mkdir $workingarea;
> > chdir $workingarea;
> >
> > my $repodir=$workingarea.'/repo';
> >
> > my $repobase="file://$repodir";
> > my $reponame="mysite.com";
> > my $repourl="$repobase/$reponame";
> >
> > my $repovendor=$repourl.'/vendor';
> > my $repowpmu=$repovendor.'/wpmu';
> > my $repomucurrent=$repowpmu.'/current';
> >
> > my $repoproject=$repourl.'/project';
> >
> > if ( ! -d $repodir ) {
> >     mkdir $repodir
> > }
> >
> > chdir $repodir;
> > run ("svnadmin create $reponame");
> >
> > run ("svn mkdir $repovendor -m 'All code from others than me'");
> > run ("svn mkdir $repowpmu -m 'Code from the $vendorurl wpmu team at
> > Automattic'");
> > run ("svn mkdir $repomucurrent -m 'Dir for wpmu current revision'");
> >
> >
> > export_and_load($vendorurl, $vendordroptag);
> >
> > run ("svn cp $repomucurrent $repoproject -m 'Import of vendor branch
> > $vendorurl $vendordroptag'");
> >
> > my $testcheckout=$workingarea."/checkout";
> > mkdir $testcheckout;
> > chdir $testcheckout;
> >
> > run ("svn co $repourl");
> >
> > print "Checked out to $testcheckout\n";
> >
> > part2();
> >
> > run ("find . -type d | grep -v .svn");
> >
> > sub part2 {
> >     my @vendordroptags=qw(1.2.4 1.2.4rc1  1.2.5  1.2.5a 1.3 1.3.2
> > 1.3.3  1.5-rc1 1.5.1);
> >     foreach $vendordroptag (@vendordroptags) {
> >    export_and_load($vendorurl, $vendordroptag);
> >     }
> > }
> >
> > sub  export_and_load {
> >     my ($vendorurl, $vendordroptag) = @_;
> >     chdir $workingarea;
> >     run ("svn export $vendorurl/tags/$vendordroptag/");
> >     run ("svn_load_dirs.pl $repowpmu -t wpmu-$vendordroptag current
> > ./$vendordroptag");
> > }
> >
> > sub run {
> >     my ($cmd) = @_;
> >     print $cmd."\n";
> >     system $cmd;
> > }
>
>