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Re: TortoiseSVN action logging.

From: Stefan Küng <tortoisesvn_at_gmail.com>
Date: 2006-10-12 20:50:35 CEST

Peter Yamamoto wrote:
> "Option to save the log" I meant the typical options associated with
> apps (not just p4) in the application's preferences.
> As an example, P4v has these options in it's general preferences
> dialog: Log all: [ ] (kind of weird, I don't know what "not all"
> covers) Enable logging to file: [ ] Log file Name: [ ] [select...]
> Log file Size: [ ]kbytes
> As another example, another app has these logging options: [ ] on [ ]
> off Filename [ ] [browse...] Max size (bytes) [ ] (-1 indicates
> unlimited) [ ] append (eg on application start/reset start a new log
> or append to existing)
> I'm sure that several nice/desirable features could be suggested but
> the basic notion of a log file is, well, basic... Isn't it? I guess
> not. If that's the issue, I apologize for assuming too much.

I'm not sure what other applications you use, but I just checked most of
the apps I have installed on my machine, and there's maybe one which
writes a log of its activities, and that's one which runs automatically
in the background, so a logfile is the only thing you have.

> As to not answering questions, um, I just started in this discussion.
> I think you may be mixing up posters. Regardless the questions you
> say haven't been answered were actually responded to recently (eg
> where save file etc).

Sorry, but that mail arrived in my inbox five minutes ago. Don't know
what happened, but when I read this I looked for a mail where you've
answered the questions and couldn't find one. I even went online to
check the mail in the web, and there I find it. One minute later I also
had it in my inbox!?!
So, again, sorry.

> Again, I think you take an adversial role in questioning the use of
> the log (which is fine, if there is reasonable doubt, but it's not
> fine if you're not really listening/putting yourself in another
> user's situation)...

Hey hey, careful here. You're basically accusing me of not listening to
users and be not connected to them! I really hate that - such
accusations are too vague to really fight them with arguments, so drop
that please.

> Once again... my workspace state now, may have nothing to do with my
> workspace state 1 hour ago, much less 2 or more days ago. So if I
> want to go back and see activity, that's hardly reconstructable from
> the current state of the workspace. I don't understand why this
> concept is so hard to comprehend. You're arguments would seem to
> bring into the question logging of any application's activity, yet
> many applications provide this feature, is this so foreign?

As I mentioned above, I don't know many applications which actually
provide saving activities to a log file (server apps excluded).

> For people who are doing a lot of merging, a lot of individual work,
> managing a lot of workspaces, having to prove that a particular
> file/folder/workspace was updated to a particular revision at some
> specific point in the past) having a log is very useful.

Useful for what? You tell here that 'it would be nice if' or 'would be
very useful to have a log' - but I still don't know what you would need
that log for. You say you don't know what files got updated anymore. Ok,
I get that. But why do you need that information? Can't you just update
the whole working copy again to make sure your working copy is at the
latest revision? You might need to do that anyway before committing.

If you may have missed a 'skipped' entry when merging, you really should
change your working practice: if you don't look at the result of a merge
but just assume everythings ok and go on, you will get into serious
trouble sooner or later - whether you have a log of the merge or not.
Because if you go on working on the wc, you will have a hard time
getting your wc to compile correctly with all your own changes after the
merge that you might be better off starting from scratch again.

After a merge, the first thing you should do immediately is compile your
project to see if everything is still ok. You don't know if the
automatic merging may have changed something which breaks the build.

When I read your example situations where you would need such a log
(while I still don't get what exactly you would use the log for), I get
the impression that your working style is a little bit chaotic. (Please
don't take this the wrong way, it's just my impression, nothing personal).

> As for different repositories etc, I don't see where that even comes
> up. Viewed as application, it makes sense that there is one log file;
> again, it seems like the very notion of a log file for an application
> is starting from scratch (eg "what a weird concept") here... Kind of
> weird.

Different repositories may not be an issue for you. But many people work
on several different projects, and therefore have working copies
assigned to different repositories. Should we just log every action of
all those different repositories into one big logfile? That may be
confusing to those users.

> I would assume that the logging would illustrate what paths are being
> used to communicate with the server (otherwise it'd be pretty
> pointless).

As you may have noticed, most of the time the progress dialog only shows
relative paths (relative to the working copy root or the path you
started the operation on).

> Anyway, I feel that this issue has still not passed the "should it be
> considered at all" stage based on your arguments. Perhaps that should
> be established first so that other answers/comments aren't dismissed
> when they are there (eg the answers already posted that you suggest
> it was my obligation to supply).

You may not realize this, but your request requires a *lot* of work. And
before I consider adding such a big feature with a lot of potential for
many new bugs, I have to make sure that there's no other (better) way of
doing what you want, and of course if that feature really is necessary.

I thought that by using a version control system, you have all the log
information you need. After all, the log dialog in TSVN is one of the
two biggest dialogs (big in terms of lines of code) with a *lot* of
functions and features. You can get almost every information out from
it. So it's really hard for me to see why you need yet another log.


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Received on Thu Oct 12 20:50:36 2006

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