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Re: transaction roots

From: Greg Stein <gstein_at_lyra.org>
Date: 2001-03-30 09:52:44 CEST

On Thu, Mar 29, 2001 at 08:35:49PM -0600, Ben Collins-Sussman wrote:
> Greg Stein <gstein@lyra.org> writes:
> > Lastly, these two paths are *specifically* why we wanted to avoid ra_local
> > as much as possible. Just get people to use and stick with ra_dav even when
> > they work on their own machine.
> In the long run, I'd hate to see ra_local relegated to an obsolete
> test harness.

Quite true. I hear ya. I bet it will always exist, but I'm hoping it will be
the black sheep of the family.

> I still think setting up Apache/DAV/mod_dav_svn on a
> local box is way too high a barrier to entry for someone who wants to
> create a private repository for personal use...

Somewhat true. And yes, the overhead is there and is quite unavoidable.

> so I predict (I hope?)
> that ra_local will be used just often as it's used in CVS.

I hope not. The more it is used, the more we need to deal with dual path
maintenance. Although... our code is a hella lot more organized than CVS, so
I doubt we'll have CVS's maintenance issues.

> (But
> that's just an opinion... I'm sure you'll personally write an amazing
> install-script to lower that Apache barrier. ;) )

I won't say amazing, but my hope is to make it as damn near invisible as
possible. I know that we can get a lot prepackaged, but there will always be
the "what port?" issue. If you have N users on a system, they each need a
different port if they'll be running a private SVN server. And each user
will need to use that port in their URLs.

> > > [ long (semi-sarcastic :-) spiel about converting ra_local ]
> Since it's clear that you're not going to budge, I think you've mostly
> managed to talk me into rewriting the fs commit-editor to match your
> model. It's still a good model, I like it.

Hmm. I'm hoping changes will come from agreement rather than avoiding an
"immovable object." I actually feel quite bad when it seems that people
relent rather than agree. The part that is even worse for me, is that it
happens enough that I notice. It makes me apprehensive about whether I'm too
stubborn, too inflexible, etc. I hope that I'm open, but it invariably
devolves to "prove it is better" which isn't nearly as diplomatic :-(

> I guess my frustration has been showing. It's not that I object to
> rewriting code when a better system is discovered; I've been doing
> that for a year. I just get frustrated when the rewrite is a result
> of two developers not agreeing on things early on. If you had told me
> about your algorithm 2 weeks ago, or vice versa, one of us wouldn't
> have to rewrite now. Nobody's fault, really. This just falls in the
> same category of that time last summer when I spent 2 weeks writing a
> library that was totally unnecessary -- and could have been prevented
> from the start if people had been communicating better. Such is life.

I hear ya. I'd say you could blame me for it. I don't really know the
algorithm until I sit down to build it. I tend to iterate a lot more often
than design-up-front. For complex problems, I tend to let them simmer in my
head for a while. Eventually, it gels, and I begin coding. Point is: if you
ask me how something will be built, I rarely know :-) Sure, I can sketch out
some ideas based on the brain-simmer, but it isn't until the code hits the
keyboard that I'm truly sure.

Point is: two weeks ago, I may have been able to describe in general terms,
but I'm not sure that it would have been clear enough for us to meet on a
particular path. So... my fault.

But I can sympathize. I just rewrote the commit stuff last night. I think
I've rewritten the checkout once or twice now.

> But hey, it's M2 week, so we're all a little tense. Nevertheless,
> Greg, you're the epitome of calmness under stress... a real cool head
> in these arguments. Thanks. :)

I hear the tense bit :-) ... I've been spending a lot of time in front of
the computer, and not enough on (ahem) planning/doing other things in life.
To get both done, it means little sleep :-)

But I tend to think of them as "discussions." It is impossible for me to be
angry with somebody for something they believe in. I tend to understand
others' positions, so I can see where they're coming from; I just tend to
disagree with those positions :-)


Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
Received on Sat Oct 21 14:36:26 2006

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