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RE: Roadmap for 1.1

From: Ian Brockbank <ian.brockbank_at_wolfsonmicro.com>
Date: 2004-04-07 13:53:11 CEST

Hi All,

I've been thinking about this a bit more, and I think I have two concrete
proposals:

1: Allow relative paths in svn:externals.

From previous postings, I gather that a path of the form ../bar is easier to
work with than absolute paths from the root of the repository. That would
do me fine.

I have updated #1336 with our use case as below. See
http://subversion.tigris.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=1336

2: Allow multiple svn:externals to map to the same directory

This would be useful for (e.g.) modifications to kernels. Say I am working
on half a dozen files in a Linux driver. It would be useful to be able to
set up a mapping e.g.

Linux http://someserver/linuxkernel
Linux http://localserver/repos/my-skeleton-kernel

and have any files in http://localserver/repos/my-skeleton-kernel overwrite
the same files from http://someserver/linuxkernel, but leave the rest of the
files from http://someserver/linuxkernel as they are. I would then just
check in my modified files to the appropriate directories in
my-skeleton-kernel.

How to resolve ambiguities and clashes? Take the last one which matches.
This could apply for checkins as well.

This might fall out of the fix for #1788 (see
http://subversion.tigris.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=1788), but I've added a
new enhancement request #1820 in case it doesn't. I also include more
detail and examples. See
http://subversion.tigris.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=1820. This would also
solve my build file problem - again, more details in #1820.

Cheers,

Ian Brockbank C.Eng. MBCS
Applications Software Engineer
e: ian.brockbank@wolfsonmicro.com / apps@wolfsonmicro.com
scd: ian@scottishdance.net
t: +44 131 272 7145
f: +44 131 272 7001
  

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Brockbank [mailto:ian.brockbank@wolfsonmicro.com]
> Sent: 06 April 2004 16:03
> To: users@subversion.tigris.org
> Subject: RE: Roadmap for 1.1
>
> Hi All,
>
> I would also like to vote for work on shared files. Our scenario:
>
> - We have to support multiple operating systems and multiple
> hardware platforms.
> - Each OS/hardware combination gets packaged separately to go
> to different customers.
> - There are various components common to all OSes and all platforms.
> - A "release" is a full set of OS/hardware combinations.
>
> We would like to be able to have the various components and
> build them up
> automatically from the SCM system - we use CVS modules at
> present. We would
> also like to be able to tag the set all together.
>
> For example, say we have the following:
>
> trunk/Core
> inc/
> src/
> doc/
> file1
> trunk/WinCE
> OS_Layer/
> Drivers/
> trunk/PalmOS
> OS_Layer/
> Drivers/
> trunk/XScale
> trunk/Geode
>
> We would like to be able to build up
>
> trunk/API/WinCE_XScale
> Drivers (alias of trunk/WinCE/Drivers)
> API
> inc/
> src/
> doc/
> file1
> OS_Layer (alias of trunk/WinCE/OS_Layer)
> Platform (alias of trunk/XScale)
>
> trunk/API/WinCE_Geode
> Drivers (alias of trunk/WinCE/Drivers)
> API
> inc/
> src/
> doc/
> file1
> OS_Layer (alias of trunk/WinCE/OS_Layer)
> Platform (alias of trunk/Geode)
>
> trunk/API/Palm_XScale
> Drivers (alias of trunk/Palm/Drivers)
> API
> inc/
> src/
> doc/
> file1
> OS_Layer (alias of trunk/Palm/OS_Layer)
> Platform (alias of trunk/XScale)
>
> trunk/API/Palm_Geode
> Drivers (alias of trunk/Palm/Drivers)
> API
> inc/
> src/
> doc/
> file1
> OS_Layer (alias of trunk/Palm/OS_Layer)
> Platform (alias of trunk/Geode)
>
> Then when we did a release we would create a tag from trunk/API and
> export it and do our testing for each platform combination.
>
> However, we would need to be able to work in one of the API
> subdirectories
> (e.g. API/Palm_XScale) and get our changes to the common directories
> propagated to all versions (we need them to stay in synch).
>
> At present we plan to use svn:externals to achieve this, e.g. with the
> following externals on API/Palm_XScale:
>
> ===
> Drivers http://subversion/repos/trunk/PalmOS/Drivers
> API http://subversion/repos/trunk/Core
> API/OS_Layer http://subversion/repos/trunk/PalmOS/OS_Layer
> API/Platform http://subversion/repos/trunk/XScale
> ===
>
> but there are several limitations which will cause us problems:
> - we can't tag properly, because the svn:externals are absolute paths
> - we can't branch properly, likewise
> - the svn:externals handling doesn't always seem happy with the
> multiple layers (the fact that OS_Layer is a subdirectory of API)
> - if we have to move our repository, all our externals will become
> invalid
>
> And WinCE forces another gotcha on us - its makefiles are completely
> different to the makefiles on other platforms (to the point
> that the two are
> irreconcilable), so we really need file-level links rather than just
> directory-level so that we can pick up the build files
> appropriate to the
> given OS.
>
> If we could specify relative links within the repository, which get
> maintained on branches and tags, that would help - e.g. our link for
> API/WinCE_XScale could be
>
> ===
> Drivers ../../WinCE/Drivers
> API ../../Core
> API/OS_Layer ../../WinCE/OS_Layer
> API/Platform ../../XScale
> makefile ../../WinCE/Build/makefile
> API/makefile ../../WinCE/Build/API/makefile
> API/src/makefile ../../WinCE/Build/API/src/makefile
> API/Platform/makefile ../../WinCE/Build/XScale/makefile
> ===
>
> Another thought (which would help the guy doing the Linux
> work, too) - it
> would be really nice to be able to build up a fileset from a
> base set of
> files - Linux kernel, WinCE BSP, Palm DAL - with specific
> overrides for the
> minimal set of files which have actually been changed. If
> you take the
> links above as priority ordered, I could create a BSP for a
> platform called
> (let's say) "Jenie" which uses an XScale PXA255 on WinCE by creating a
> directory
>
> trunk/BSPs/Base/PXA255 (containing the base BSP for the PXA255)
>
> and
>
> trunk/BSPs/Jenie
>
> containing the following links:
>
> ===
> Jenie/Drivers ../../API/WinCE_XScale
> Jenie ../../BSPs/Base/PXA255
> ===
>
> In case of any conflicts, ../../API/WinCE_XScale would win.
> Checkins on
> conflicting directories would go to ../../API/WinCE_XScale.
> In other words,
> the ambiguities from having two repository locations mapping
> to one file
> system location are explicitly up to me to resolve with the
> ordering of my
> mappings.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ian Brockbank C.Eng. MBCS
> Applications Software Engineer
> e: ian.brockbank@wolfsonmicro.com / apps@wolfsonmicro.com
> scd: ian@scottishdance.net
> t: +44 131 272 7145
> f: +44 131 272 7001
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Walter Nicholls [mailto:walter.nicholls@cornerstone.co.nz]
> > Sent: 01 April 2004 22:15
> > To: users@subversion.tigris.org
> > Cc: kfogel@collab.net
> > Subject: RE: Roadmap for 1.1
> >
> > I trying to prioritise features for 1.1, how about looking at the
> > subversion development process from the point of view of not adding
> > *features* but adding *users*
> >
> > For example:
> >
> > Subversion 1.0 - woo existing CVS users
> > Subversion 1.1 - woo existing SourceSafe users
> > .. etc ..
> >
> > From my point of view, I'd rather have a Subversion 1.1 sooner (eg 6
> > months) that has fewer features but addresses a specific user group
> > completely, than a Svn 1.1 later (eg 18 months)that has lots
> > of features
> > but *still* doesn't enable people to migrate to it. Obviously as a
> > SourceSafe user (and despiser) I would like that user group
> to include
> > me, but actually I think there are some good reasons for
> > targetting them
> > anyway.
> >
> > I haven't included "users new to source control" above
> > because they can
> > come in at any time. Examples of other user groups to consider (post
> > 1.1) might be arch users, clearcase, people who demand the
> > repository is
> > stored in a SQL database ... I don't think anyone considers
> > any of those
> > to be on the critical hit list.
> >
> > Now my examples are pretty arbitary, but my point is that
> if you only
> > scratch some of everyone's itches, noone will be satisfied.
> > Obviously I
> > am majorly biased (see www.sourcecross.org) but apart from doing
> > everyone a favour from making sourcesafe unnecessary, being a viable
> > alternative to sourcesafe will attract a large community, especially
> > Windows users who are a very large body of people. (I could
> also spin
> > that a little and suggest (very <tic>) that Windows users are
> > primarily
> > immature development shops that may mature in future and buy
> > SourceCast
> > <g,d&r from all those mature Windows developers out there, me
> > included!>)
> >
> > Perhaps more to the point, SourceSafe users are going to be
> > in a mind to
> > switch. Clearcase users probably aren't (unless they have
> changed jobs
> > and want to set up a similar system without the licence fees), and I
> > don't think I need to say anything about Arch devotees on
> this list...
> >
> > Anyway to get to the point.
> >
> > I think the main SourceSafe features that Subversion 1.0 does
> > not cover
> > are:
> > 1. Locking (both exclusive and advisory)
> > 2. Shared files (same file in two repository locations)
> > 3. Labels (named revisions)
> >
> > There are some others which I don't think are that big a deal or the
> > workarounds are near trivial: cloaked projects, shadow folders (use
> > post-commit hook), access rights (mod_svn_authz does me fine)
> >
> > 1. Locking
> > Well, you're dealing with that. Note that the lockingplan.txt when I
> > read seemed to focus on Exclusive locks only - we need
> shared/advisory
> > locks as well (and locks must have the user recorded against
> > them or the
> > advice is not so useful)
> >
> > 2. Shared files
> > This itch is *almost* satisfied by svn:externals, but not quite. I
> > don't think it would be difficult to make svn:externals work
> > safisfactorily - just need commits to go to the right place
> > in the right
> > repository.
> > As far as shared files vs shared directories, I actually prefer the
> > directory anyway.
> >
> > 3. Labels
> > This isn't a big deal for me, and I think placing a label
> property on
> > the revision is perfectly adequate. (Other people may have
> > other ideas,
> > wanting to say "svn co -r SUBVERSION_1_1_0_beta1" perhaps.)
> >
> > ----------
> > Of the other features
> >
> > * I18n is very important, if scary (Obviously the current users all
> > have no trouble with English, so the support can all be channelled
> > through English speaking channels - ie users@ mailing list)
> > * The release procedures do need tightening: we don't need
> > things like
> > the 1.0.0 broken python on Windows, and the delay in getting Windows
> > 1.0.1 out wasn't good either.
> > * Working towards anything that improves integrity of historical
> > information (I think I mean "renames"!)
> > * Work towards anything that makes it easier to resolve branching /
> > merging ("history-sensitive merges?")
> >
> > I don't have voting rights, so this is best I can do to influence
> > people...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
> >
> >
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>

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www.wolfsonmicro.com
T +44 131 272 7000
F +44 131 272 7001
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Received on Wed Apr 7 13:53:44 2004

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