By the way, new users still aren't finding the history after a failed commit
(there's just been another thread about it on the users list, which I'm sure
you've already seen).
I don't think it will make any difference whether it's a combobox or a
butt-ugly button ;-), newbies still won't realise what it's for.
So may I make another suggestion?
The first time a user does a commit AFTER a failed commit, simply put some
text next to the new History button to let them know that their failed text
is in there. Would that be possible?
Just think, if you sort this out, you may never have to have this discussion
again ;-)
Julian
-----Original Message-----
From: Molle Bestefich [mailto:molle.bestefich@gmail.com]
Sent: 15 November 2005 03:23
To: dev@tortoisesvn.tigris.org
Cc: tortoisesvn@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Concerning history button
Lübbe Onken wrote:
> IIRC the problem with the history box was that it is not possible to
> decide if something is selected whether it should (not) be pasted into
> the edit box. There was no real cancel option.
What 'bout standard CTRL-Z ?
Stefan Küng wrote:
> > Haven't downloaded nightlies in a while (my PC broke a couple
> > times), but now I have.
> >
> > OMFG, that button is butt ugly !!!
>
> It's a normal button like all other buttons. Please don't insult that
> poor little button.
I stick to my story. Someone beat that button with an ugly stick :-).
I might have to buy you a jacket with very long sleeves that meet in the
back if you make another button like that :-). Wait... Seems a jacket just
like that is already on your Amazon wish list! Bad boy!!
> Also, you didn't object back then,
> so now there's a button instead of a combobox...
Guilty as charged.
(Back then I thought: Stefan has enough petty-detail-spam to deal with
without my contribution.
Tried to avoid joining any spamfests is my excuse, until I come up with a
better one.)
> We discussed that in a *very* long thread already.
> http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=21597
Ok. Off to read that. I'm lucky that Tigris keeps an archive.
Some misguided soul marked some of it X-No-Archive, which means that Gmane
has nuked the entire thread. Gah.
> Read the whole thread, and you'll find out why it was changed.
Done. Hate to bicker on about this, but I'm going to anyway ;).
Quick sum-up + my comments. Feel free to skim quotations.
JGarvin>>> When I go to commit my changes, I sometimes type in a rather
JGarvin>>> large comment on what I've changed. When an error occurrs
JGarvin>>> (specifically, an unrelated file was out of date), it does
JGarvin>>> not give me the opportunity to retry my commit after I've fixed
the problem.
JGarvin>>> Instead, I am am forced to LOSE my 1-2 paragraphs worth of
commments.
Rookie mistake. Did it myself back then.
SKüng>> [snip: explains what the combo box does]
JGarvin> Thank you!
JGarvin> Doh! I feel stupid now.
Homer Simpson moment sets in.
JGarvin> While I saw that earlier -- it's definately not obvious that it
JGarvin> keeps unsuccessfull log entries in there
Poster notes that something is not intuitive.
Specifically, he actually noticed the fancy combo box, but failed to decode
it's actual purpose. He has undoubtedly found it's purpose intriguing,
clicked it, and noticed what the effect is (copying the text to the edit
area). Good. That saves everybody from explaining that it's there or how
it works.
What's not good is that it is apparently unobvious what the combo actually
*contains*. I'm quite sure that he actually _has_ looked at the "Log
Message History" label. Thus, he must've been misinformed by that label.
Why was he misinformed?
It *does* after all say exactly what it contains - a "message history".
So how can that label be improved?
* Don't use the words "Log Message". The user will think "duh, it's
obvious that it's about log messages, since this entire dialog is".
Thinking that will cause the user to disregard this 'boring' label
and thereby miss the more subtle point that it's trying to convey.
At least drop the "Log" part and just make it "Message history",
that conveys the point clearer and seems less redundant.
* Perhaps don't use the word "History". History implies that it's
something that has already happened. Since feature is useful for
commits that has actually *not* taken place, "History" might be
misleading. Using a word that is closer to current point in time,
fx. "Recent", might help.
* Since the user is a newly traveller in TSVN land, he hasn't seen
many dialogs. One of the few he's seen is the dialog brought about
by 'Show Log'. That dialog is actually named: "Log Messages".
Which paves way for an unsuitable (subconscious?) mental connection
between the 'Log Messages' dialog and the 'Log Messages History'
combo. Let's try and avoid that.
In short, noone can blame him for thinking that the combo box stores only
messages from commits that actually got accepted to the repository.
JGarvin> I still think a retry button would be the most natural UI.
Mr. Garvin suggests:
1. An 'abort/retry' type dialog,
2. Or for the commit dialog to stay open and have a retry button - not sure
which.
Neither is good, because:
1. Retry dialogs are annoying, so it would be nice to avoid that.
2. Big dialogs staying open and taking up screen estate is equally annoying.
Also the user will modify the WC before committing again, and the dialog
won't reflect modifications. Not good either.
That's about it for the button part of the story.
Stefan, thanks a lot for listening to all the bicker and trying to improve
something that obviously a bunch of newbies are having problems with. I
still think there's room for improvement however, here's a bit of analysis
and some concrete suggestions:
* Poster never requested the combo box be turned into a button control.
He asked for it to go away completely and be replaced by an 'abort/retry'
dialog.
(Let's not do that :-).)
* I'm a bit annoyed by having to click one more time now than before (it
all adds up...), and
* The button opens a popup. The contents of the popup dialog flies into
the original
dialog. The popup dialog's only purpose in life is to contain a small
list. My feeling
is that this is not particularly good GUI-wise,
* A combo box control is more suited for the job...
* A good associated text should be fx. "Recently written" or "Recent
messages" or "Recent entries" (I prefer "recently written").
* It seems to me that standardized GUIs would layout the control on the
right-hand,
not the left-hand side.
Also, super-minor point:
* I liked it better when the last message was per default displayed in the
combo.
That helped a bit to make it clear what the control does.
Phew. Argumenting the proper way instead of just screaming for changes to
happen is hard work. Lemme know if you want mockups instead of a long text.
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Received on Tue Nov 15 10:48:27 2005